tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post797931325222799094..comments2024-03-08T06:18:28.125+11:00Comments on Bronte Capital: Weekend edition: Car DealersJohn Hemptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-48009290982954350812012-08-07T02:19:02.080+10:002012-08-07T02:19:02.080+10:00As a value guy, buying used from a private party i...As a value guy, buying used from a private party is the better deal. Hard to argue the first 3 years of a car's life are half the value. I'll take a 3 year old BMW 7 series over a new 5 series.<br /><br />worst case, you can always do what these guys did.<br />http://i.imgur.com/ZlOae.jpgCurmudgeonlyTrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02004282752334460717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-16181521905783080482012-08-06T01:51:10.578+10:002012-08-06T01:51:10.578+10:00A carpenter goes to the bar after work and talks a...A carpenter goes to the bar after work and talks about his good handy work. An economist talks about allocating capital correctly. A salesman, after a good day, brags about having sold ice to an Eskimo. They don't feel good about themselves unless they have misallocated resources! They are driven by utterly different motivations from normal people. Wonder why the telephone sales guy doesn't get off the phone - and ring somebody that is more likely to buy- when you shout at him? He wants to break you, so he has a story to brag about.<br />Wonder why they don't seem to aim their calls at people that are more likely to buy the product, like single women when selling security devices? They aren't motivated by money per se.<br />Wondered why a real estate agent walks away from selling your house for less then the full commission, even though you know he's making a tonne? He doesn't care about the money he wants to gut you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-47046726891981199932012-08-05T03:25:52.181+10:002012-08-05T03:25:52.181+10:00Remember that the manager is a veteran salesman, h...Remember that the manager is a veteran salesman, he knows how to work both customers and employees. From my experience in trying a few commission-based sales jobs they play nice at the new employee orientation, but when sales disappoint they urge you to try a few mildly questionable tricks and off we roll down the slippery slope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-73160425941999864812012-08-03T13:24:01.335+10:002012-08-03T13:24:01.335+10:00Kid D,
" as one friend says: "that'...Kid D,<br /><br />" as one friend says: "that's how you know the price was right"."<br /><br />He is absolutely right. A car salesman's job is to have you walk away with a new car convinced that you got a great deal - and have himself walk away convinced that he made a great profit. <br /><br />If neither of you were happy you probably did get a fair price.<br /><br />Just went through the process myself and I cannot begin to describe my white-hot hate for the pricks who get off on lying to and misleading people for a living.<br /><br />Milton Friedman might have something to say about how such dynamics help the market find the true value of a commodity, and I admit that there may be a point to that - but that does not make the process any less demeaning, insulting, and non-productive.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03370037167688931872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-37225015835912226252012-08-03T10:55:38.632+10:002012-08-03T10:55:38.632+10:00John,
I have thought about this question a lot d...John, <br /><br />I have thought about this question a lot during my 25 year business career. Normal nice friendly men who's company you would probably enjoy at a neighborhood BBQ or a round of golf, make ends meet at work by being scumbags- ripping people off, not paying their bills on time or in full or at all, lying on a daily basis to customers or dogging it at work.. My theory of why they do this is 1) They are intellectually lazy and/or 2) they have no other game. That is the only edge they have, the only way their lazy ass is going to make money and 3) they are so far past the point of caring it's comical. Incidentally although you can find scumbags in all occupations, my personal belief is the insurance industry has the highest scumbag percentage. I also am blown away how parents will befriend known scumbag parents of kids on the same sports team as their kids team without thinking twice. Just my observationsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-79305009365126815072012-08-03T05:28:27.685+10:002012-08-03T05:28:27.685+10:00Great comment from Ben Hyde. I'd also point o...Great comment from Ben Hyde. I'd also point out that the "single price" in finance is actually something of an illusion--the difference between the buyer's and seller's price becomes more noticeable in less liquid markets (such as startups negotiating with VCs about the proper valuation of their equity, or non-auction art transactions). In sympathy with the salesperson, you are clearly willing to pay above your negotiating price for the car. Really what you want is to feel that you got a good deal--or maybe even to feel that you "won" the negotiation. In this case, you might not have been able to come to an agreement--if the dealer was unwilling to sell for less than $4k more and you were unwilling to pay the price. It's not a case of anyone being a scumbag, it's just basic negotiating. <br /><br />That said, it seems possible that the dealer was lying about you being substantially under the break even point. That would certainly be an underhanded move, but maybe this deal just wasn't going to happen. It does seem that the incentives are for the salesman to try to rip you off--would you be willing to pay more just because the dealer played it straight? Most people are just looking for the best price they can, and many are probably willing to tell the dealer some "white lies" to get there.<br /><br />I am living in NYC, so I have more experience buying bikes than cars, but if a salesperson is knowledgeable and points me to a bike that feels right, I'd be more likely to be "upsold" on useful accessories rather than getting them on Amazon. One of the benefits of being middle class is that you can pay a little extra for good service or selection. Likewise, I'll get books at a nearby independent bookstore without checking whether they are on sale on Amazon. I almost only shop at independent stores because I feel that an actual person is benefiting--I'm much more aggressive if I'm dealing with a chain or business.<br /><br />One last note is that the reason you short sell liars/scumbags is because you have more insight into their business than the average investor. It's not the lying that's a clear sign (else you'd be shorting Murdoch/most big banks). Even if this car dealer lied to you, the main mark against his business model is that he's not as cheap as other dealers.Eric Titusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-58558358541852943812012-08-03T03:15:47.677+10:002012-08-03T03:15:47.677+10:00I think it is indeed self selection. It is an indu...I think it is indeed self selection. It is an industry characterized by information asymmetry, opportunity for salesmen to make good commissions without much technical or educational qualifications and relatively little regulation. I do believe that the asymmetry is reducing (at least in the US), there is plenty of competition, and car buying has become a less horrendous experience over the years.<br /><br />So how can you benefit from self-selection in your business? You could start a stock promotion scheme yourself and find out the kind of people it attracts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-37132948971305467872012-08-03T03:04:09.339+10:002012-08-03T03:04:09.339+10:00I wanted to buy a VW Golf TDI Blue Motion. I went ...I wanted to buy a VW Golf TDI Blue Motion. I went to my local VW dealer and said as much. I knew roughly what it should be. But the company which owns the concession (also the Audi Skoda and others in my and nearby regions) is ODIOUS. I said I want it, will pay cash, and that they hgave one chance to make their most competitive offer, and if its good I will buy it then and there. When the salesman came back, it was NOT with a price, but wibble-wabble still trying to figure out what I will pay, rather than where he will offer. F*Ck that! I got my wife a new Merc A190 2.0 CDI CVT for EURO 21,000 from a guy who bought 100 of excess stock from the Italian Dealer netork. Zero KM. Only downside was that the matriculation date left 14mo on warranty and the manual was in Italian. <br /><br />My other car (Volvo V70) I bought in April 2009 which was a fine time to buy a car. I would be surprised if I paid above their operating cost. Sure, I took the colour and options that were around, but I am not car-proud...just parsimonious...<br /><br />--CassandraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-16099904768579879802012-08-02T23:08:42.468+10:002012-08-02T23:08:42.468+10:00Discriminatory or value pricing is an element of a...Discriminatory or value pricing is an element of any transaction. There is a space between the value the customer perceives he will obtain from the product and the marginal cost for the seller to obtain it. As long as the gap is positive a deal can presumably be struck anyplace in the gap, and both edges and both parties perceptions of them are amazingly flexible.<br /><br />Some of the literature on this kind of thing, all of which is targeted as the sellers, talks about the hidden price; i.e. the price the damn customer is willing to pay and which he refuses to tell the seller. Imagine what a slimeball the car salesman thinks you are because your not willing to admit how insensitive to price you actually on this particular transaction. You don't care much about the price, you care about the respect.<br /><br />A long laundry list of things contribute to the probability of discriminatory pricing. How locked in is the user after the first transaction. How much repeat business there is. How commoditized the market is. How quickly the products go out of style. How large the transaction is. And, that is only the tip of the iceberg. This list is so long that in most businesses must engage in the this kind of slime ball behavior. In effect this is where the pricing power of a firm is most manifest and failing to leverage your pricing power will kill you another producer will.<br /><br />The hardest part, for seller, is puzzling out what the buyer is willing to pay. Is he in a hurry? Is he spending his money or somebody else's? (I've had appliance salemen convinced I was the building super - at which point they offered me a gift card rather than a discount.) Is he a fool. These are no different than the problems a buy has figuring out what the qualities of the product he's buying really are.<br /><br />If there is lots of room and ambiguity in the cost-value gap then the selling firm is well advised to add more labor who's job is to discover the hidden price; and the more tedious closing a transaction becomes. Some buyers and sellers enjoy this tedium.<br /><br />Technology and marketing have expanded tremendously the number of transactions that can be made more tedious. I just bought a 700$ list price item for 400$ by using a sale, a coupon, a web site that kicks back 2.5%, a free delivery coupon, and gift card I bought from a gift card reseller. All of these are tedious and they all exist as a way for the seller to force me to reveal what I'm will to pay. By proving that I'm aware of these methods I prove I am price sensitive and by going thru the tedious process of using them I prove I'm worthy of thier discounting the goods.<br /><br />I love your rule of thumb: if slimeballs then opportunity-to-short maybe be nearby. But I think you maybe to quick to draw on the precondition in this case. Some, many, most? markets expend a tremendous amount of calories on just this kind of thing. Eliminating it is hard; and in many cases when you think you've found a market where it's not prevalent your need to ponder if maybe somebody has pricing power and you can see it yet.<br /><br />Gosh this comment got out of control, sorry about that.Ben Hydehttp://enthusiasm.cozy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-19616682579938692192012-08-02T22:44:25.699+10:002012-08-02T22:44:25.699+10:00John,
I suspect being a car dealer is, like most ...John,<br /><br />I suspect being a car dealer is, like most industries in a free market, one where the rules of survival of the fittest play out, and jungle forces prevail.<br /><br />It is very likely the case that slimball negotiation tactics, including outright lying, end up closing more sales and generating more sales commissions, than "straight up" tactics.<br /><br />You are not the typical joe blogs car buyers. You are unusually savvy and able to spot and call B/S. Most people probably aren't, and many will fall for the "we will lose $4,000 on this" line. <br /><br />And as a car dealer, maybe you're better off making one car sales and earning at $10k margin than making two with a $3k margin. <br /><br />So it's not a nature or nurtue issue. The honest car dealers aren't there because they couldn't pull their quota.<br /><br />Probably sad but true.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />LTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-15902103845347171572012-08-02T17:09:35.088+10:002012-08-02T17:09:35.088+10:00“Our suspicions of others are aroused by knowledge...“Our suspicions of others are aroused by knowledge of ourselves.” (source unknown)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-3278071651653403312012-08-01T22:49:10.456+10:002012-08-01T22:49:10.456+10:00You are obviously frustrated but I think all this ...You are obviously frustrated but I think all this is unnecessary. <br /><br />Firstly, difficult to arrive at fair value is here. If you really didn't want to haggle on the price, you could have just said "give me one quote as I don't like negotiating and move on". Why did you go back with a price?<br /><br />Secondly, you should not be equating everything with financial markets. This is real world, he is a sales guy and he is necessary not just for deciding the price but for the company but also for you. <br /> <br />What he is doing is just fair. Saying that "at that price he would be making a loss" just seems to me a polite way of saying that he does not want to sell you the car at that price. <br /><br />He obviously makes a commission from sales, so it is in his interest to sell than not. <br /><br /><br />The problem I think could be that you already like that car, and there is a price that you are willing to pay for it but salesman knows better and is asking for your price + 5%. That normally the tolerance zone. If I buy a car once in 5 years, wont I get one that I really like?<br /><br />If you can spot a liar and you see one here, be a big boy and go back to him and negotiate with him. You cant trade people for computer screens, you got to do these things once in a while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-84988562409304103952012-08-01T19:38:51.297+10:002012-08-01T19:38:51.297+10:00John,
there are people who are natural scumbags (...John,<br /><br />there are people who are natural scumbags (patological psychopaths), and they are actually reasonably spottable if you can talk to them more than once - and very trackeable (due to the condition being patological).<br /><br />The there are what I'd call opportunistic scumbags. That is people who could be under different conditions reasonably decent, but a) found that being scumbag pays and usually b) managed to invent a nice explanation for themselves re what they are doing is actually ok. Often they are "scumbag apprentices" - not of specific scumbag, but of "scumbag industry" - which is self-selecting (as an acquitance of mine in Melbourne told me when he tried his hand at being a real estate agent - "I couldn't lie well enough to keep with the pros").<br /><br />So, if you were to go for scumbag detection tool, I'd say:<br />- check for patological psychopaths - although you might find that a lot of large company CEOs exhibit the symptoms, which I suspect is still a short opportunity but a large ship is harder to hole than small/medium;<br />- check for scumbag "apprentice", i.e. people indoctrinated by an identified scumbag;Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-59628663961335657952012-08-01T13:56:01.285+10:002012-08-01T13:56:01.285+10:00A very interesting discussion showing your blindsp...A very interesting discussion showing your blindspots.<br /><br />Cars, like everything else are a purchase you may or may not bother to negotiate.<br /><br />Let me relate the experience I just had selling four vehicles for an estate sale last weekend. One pile of junk- one very collectible international scout (not running), one restoration ready truck, and one modern vehicle. <br /><br />I sold them all subject to a buy-it now price on craigslist- absolute sale to highest bidder at the end of the estate sale- cash paid and you remove.<br /><br />The modern vehicle I priced 12% under Kelly BB, and it sold instantly.<br /><br />The others went to end, and generated very little auction action, to my surprise. Too many assumed I was not honest in running the auction. As a result, I sold the restorable truck for about half price to a friend- who was shocked that no one else bid. I sold the collectible for about half to a guy who had driven down 20 miles to look at it, spent an hour checking it out, and was there for the auction. His competition was an email bid that was sort of incompetent.<br /><br />After the auction, the winners all managed to get everything out of the yard the next day, helped each other, and in general were a very good bunch.<br /><br />The next two days I had emails, texts, and calls assuming that I would not have sold them so cheap- because people are used to dishonest actors.<br /><br />They were shocked, and in one case was indignant about me sticking to the announced terms of sale.<br /><br />You need to understand- as is mentioned above- how many cheat on both sides of the transactions.<br /><br />Dishonesty is rife in business, which makes being honest a challenge in this world.Citizen AllenMhttp://www.calculatedriskblog.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-45249918888646264392012-07-31T23:51:41.419+10:002012-07-31T23:51:41.419+10:00My family own 8 dealerships in north america. All ...My family own 8 dealerships in north america. All in small towns. I hope to shed some light on this from the other side.<br /><br />First, i'm going to assume two things 1) you tried to buy a car in a big city/at a big dealership 2) you were looking at a new car.<br /><br />1) In big cities and big dealers the sales people do not care about the long term relationship with you. They live for the "up" (daily lot traffic). They only care about the sale and after that its nothing to them. All dealers from big cities are scum. They even treat the small dealers like scum. They try to screw the small dealers just as bad as they screw their customers. One dealer trade we did with a big dealer took the third row out of a car for themselves to keep even though it was suppose to be sold with the car. Finally, most people believe they can save big money by going to a bigger city/big dealer. Thats the biggest lie ever. The cost of a new car is the same at all dealers, you are not saving yourself any money. Keep in mind its trade difference that is the true cost, not how much they write on the paper you are "buying" the car for.<br /><br />Small city dealers are not like this. The big city tactics don't fly because word of mouth would kill you off before to long. The really smart customers we have drive from a big city to a small town dealer because they realize this. We can't sell lemons, can't screw people, and can't provide shitty service. If we did, we'd be out of business quickly.<br /><br />2)If you are looking at a high end luxury car there maybe 4k markup in the car. In one of our stores right now we have a new van on the lot, total mark up is $128 (yeah we're really screwing the customer right?). <br /><br />Were you looking at info online that was current and up to date? You could be looking at info for when rebates were a lot higher. We see this all the time. Customer remember when you could get 15k off a truck when GM and chrysler were about to bite the dust, gas was $4+, and they had way to much inventory. Today each brand has learned not to beat itself out of business. No more huge rebates (a huge rebate is now $2k), no more rental cars, fleet cars, and loaner cars that get sold used with 10-20k miles, 1 yr old, and $10k cheaper. They've learned their lesson and those days are gone.<br /><br />But then I have to ask the question if you're the type of person that if they like the offer price you buy. There is the manufacturers sticker on every new car, has to be there legally. If you didn't like it why didn't you walk away? Who cares if the dealer makes money off you? Isn't that what you do in the market every day? Don't you want them to make money so they can be around to service your purchase correctly in the future? <br /><br />But you also have to ask, have you ever worked at a dealership before? Have you ever worked with the retail public? If you have you know how your customers try to screw you too. Just last week we gave a free loaner to a service customer. As she backed out of the parking stall she hit one of our popular new cars causing 7k damage to the two cars. Guess what her reaction was? "This is your fault, there is a blind spot in your loaner car." And you think the dealer is the A-hole? Maybe, just maybe, if customers didn't treat us like the a-hole, dealerships wouldn't have to act like an a-hole also. Not saying that it works that way all the time, but you'd be surprised if you went to a smaller dealer and were honest and open that you'd probably run into some nice people that would bend over backward to earn your business in an honest way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-3929920922178803932012-07-31T18:45:32.941+10:002012-07-31T18:45:32.941+10:00to Martin, who mentioned just rent a car.
I recen...to Martin, who mentioned just rent a car. <br />I recently did this and it was more depressing than buying a car. Do you get ripped off buying the tank of fuel at the start for fuel you won't use, or desperately search near the drop off point for a convenient petrol station to avoid getting completely bent over on the fill up price. Then you start to get the hard sell on insurances, thank god my credit card covers me so i can just sign the waiver, again though its a real pain, please sign here that you are completely liable for the full replacement costs of the car, talk about scary. Don't even get me started on the process of finding which rental company to use, myriad of options and special deals making it almost impossible to compare, its making me peed off just thinking about it.Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320223096536122904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-77257461823662087482012-07-31T15:20:09.868+10:002012-07-31T15:20:09.868+10:00In IT-security there's just a good book from o...In IT-security there's just a good book from our local guru. I can recommend it, it's also applicable to this area of expertise:<br /><br />http://www.schneier.com/book-lo.html<br /><br />Liars and Outliers: <br />Enabling the Trust that Society Needs to Thrive<br /><br />We don’t demand a background check on the plumber who shows up to fix the leaky sink. We don’t do a chemical analysis on food we eat.<br /><br />Trust and cooperation are the first problems we had to solve before we could become a social species. In the 21st century, they have become the most important problems we need to solve—again. Our global society has become so large and complex that our traditional trust mechanisms no longer work.uair01https://www.blogger.com/profile/14538242264866015155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-76380395460366941862012-07-31T13:21:20.970+10:002012-07-31T13:21:20.970+10:00As a group the population of very successful car s...As a group the population of very successful car salesmen includes an unusually high proportion of psychopaths. <br /><br />That doesn't mean they've killed anybody, it just means they lack empathy and a normal conscience.<br /><br />The best way to spot them is to meet them. Most people can sense the disconnect between the outward smiles and true inner self. They just seem off somehow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-64317289072311417102012-07-31T08:34:42.733+10:002012-07-31T08:34:42.733+10:00Stock Promoters change countries and companies fas...Stock Promoters change countries and companies faster than you can blink your eye. <br /><br />So look for financial publishers who sell stock "stories" to their readers. Then the emails who won't buy their stock picks/newsletters are rented out to stock promoters.<br /><br />I could name a few financial publishers who do this but you can google them pretty easy. StreetAuthority is a large list. There are tons of lists you can subscribe to...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-61168739994728227702012-07-31T07:39:45.192+10:002012-07-31T07:39:45.192+10:00Do you really need a new car?
Buy one secondhand...Do you really need a new car? <br /><br />Buy one secondhand from someone you like... Think of it as a secondary market not infiltrated by stock promoters.<br /><br />You'd be just as irritated if you bought Facebook at a 100 b valuation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-49649952306270385592012-07-31T06:00:00.483+10:002012-07-31T06:00:00.483+10:00Inner compass or the structure of society? That...Inner compass or the structure of society? That's above my paygrade to answer.<br /><br />But about dealerships it's pretty simple.<br /><br />1) Asymmetric informations (See Akerlof on "Lemons"). You do not know their cost and margins nor the market price as you do in the stock market. Hence you are unaware of how bad a deal you are making opening up the avenue for higher margins.<br /><br />2) Incentives. Because car companies have outsourced sales to scale quickly and lessen CAPEX we have middle men who employ salesmen on commission. These salesmen have incentives aligned with the car dealerships but not with the car companies nor with the customers because of infrequent or nonrecurrent deals (general case of course some exceptions to be expected).<br /><br />How to fix this? I think you either have to make a liquid and transparent market platform for car sales or completely integrate the sales process and eliminate commissions. The first would be an extreme version of Google and the second would be Apple. The first is easily scalable, the second can potentially offer better service and brand awareness. Low-end might go all Internet and high-end can live with limited scaling. Will be interesting to follow Tesla who is building its own network as it slowly scales and BMW, Daimler and such who try to follow in a limited fashion while not upsetting their dealerships.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04298291177272942247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-46455671299032307072012-07-31T05:52:35.085+10:002012-07-31T05:52:35.085+10:00Well, my experience is slightly different. First ...Well, my experience is slightly different. First off, I bought an Audi, and there is very little pricing movement on these cars (I'm also in Canada). I went to two dealers and the price was the same (maybe $200 difference -- on a $70k car). I chose the dealer for his after sales reputation.<br /><br />BTW I bought a Saturn years ago, the second iteration before it was gutted and made into just another GM brand. Good car, and the sales process was seamless.Frozen in the Northhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04901959687094626879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-9026007148536997852012-07-31T05:41:57.031+10:002012-07-31T05:41:57.031+10:00Add Dealer Incentives, gas guzzler taxes, governme...Add Dealer Incentives, gas guzzler taxes, government intervention and even CO2 incentive discounts to the mix and you touch the entire chain of scumbags. <br /><br />Nice little thought experiment... <br /><br />Buying used might limit the risk.Jeffrey Hildebrandhttp://www.brandnet.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-6096757908507578012012-07-31T02:36:58.341+10:002012-07-31T02:36:58.341+10:00My guess is someone is born and or raised that way...My guess is someone is born and or raised that way. And working in certain sectors brings out the worst in these types of people.<br /><br />Now, how did you miss out on shorting shares of BBG? <br /><br />What's your opinion on their current situation? <br /><br />Why would anyone trust the current people running that company to conduct a successful turnaround?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-35827154874172330602012-07-31T02:18:07.253+10:002012-07-31T02:18:07.253+10:00It may be an Evolutionarily Stable Strategy (ESS)....It may be an Evolutionarily Stable Strategy (ESS).<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy<br /><br />ESS potentially explains certain seemingly destructive, self-destructive, and/or parasitical behaviors. You are good at detecting liars, but not everyone is, so this ESS can reproduce.<br /><br />This would of course mean that car salesmen and stock promoters were born with these traits, and simply self-selected into their slimy careers of choice.<br /><br />I have no idea whether it's actually true -- just a potential interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com