tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post9200084813823624729..comments2024-03-08T06:18:28.125+11:00Comments on Bronte Capital: Happenings in Little Italy: nurses and litigation riskJohn Hemptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-67479990906732225802011-10-20T12:36:24.015+11:002011-10-20T12:36:24.015+11:00Well you don't want to need help in China wher...Well you don't want to need help in China where good Samaritans are afraid of getting sued. Here is another shocker that happened a few days ago:<br /><br />http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/16/watch_toddler_run_over_by_two_vehic.php<br /><br />People just walked by without helping the toddler.David Olivernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-69700656952368628752011-10-19T23:38:32.965+11:002011-10-19T23:38:32.965+11:00In the US, its litigation risk. its the same in Ch...In the US, its litigation risk. its the same in China. <br /><br />http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-08/in-china-don-t-dare-help-the-elderly-adam-minter.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-68879969891400260302011-10-11T02:59:04.145+11:002011-10-11T02:59:04.145+11:001) Pretty much only in NYC. I have lived all over ...1) Pretty much only in NYC. I have lived all over the US - NYC, NE, South, Deep South, Texas, and only in NYC is correct.<br /><br />2) When the party in power is funded by Trial Lawyers as their #1 donors, these things happen. One side is dying to pass Litigation reform, the other is blocking it with all hands on deck. Shrug.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-56309185529298331062011-10-11T01:48:10.164+11:002011-10-11T01:48:10.164+11:00I agree with earlier commenters about Good Samarit...I agree with earlier commenters about Good Samaritan laws but especially about how remarkable it is that you found good Italian food in Little Italy. As far as I was aware, Manhattan's Little Italy is 100% tourist traps at this point, bar for Ferrarra's pastries but even those aren't as good as Veniero's in the East Village or Rocco's in the West Village.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-22711572931100914152011-10-10T20:02:47.819+11:002011-10-10T20:02:47.819+11:00Another "Anonymous" mentioned this for G...Another "Anonymous" mentioned this for Germany, but I'll point out that it applies in Australia, too:<br /><br />In Oz, the law <b>requires</b> that you act, subject to your ability and proximity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-57043549960799002302011-10-10T15:02:03.572+11:002011-10-10T15:02:03.572+11:00The nurses were right. This IS the United States f...The nurses were right. This IS the United States for you. Don't make excuses for the execrable way in which America finds itself today by blaming the nurses. The U.S. is a hell-hole. I lived there 22 years and I saw the decay first-hand. Sorry, John, with your "balanced" approach you display your excruciating ignorance of the state of play in the U.S. today. To anyone living there I say, "Leave... as soon as you can". Life will become unbearable in the next few years. Mark my words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-6606547537255754832011-10-10T09:52:59.430+11:002011-10-10T09:52:59.430+11:00This probably isn't the place to rehash the ma...This probably isn't the place to rehash the malpractice debate but three points.<br /><br />(1) The nurses were probably drunk and if they weren't they are (as someone else pointed out) assholes and a discredit to their profesion.<br /><br />(2) The great majority of malpractice claims have to do with conduct that most people would agree is actual wrongdoing - like amputating the wrong limb or leaving an instrument in someone's body.<br /><br />(3) Malpractice premiums are really high for some specialities and very affordable for others. Of course, if some (or a lot) of the actual wrongdoing in (2) were cut down, the premiums would be less.<br /><br />Of course I understand that a lot of this does not apply to OB-GYN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-86926042855191069282011-10-10T05:12:29.304+11:002011-10-10T05:12:29.304+11:00First: I hope the guy is okay.
Second: I'd l...First: I hope the guy is okay. <br /><br />Second: I'd like to say that fear of litigation is the exception in the US, but in my experience, it's not--or, rather, it's hit-or-miss. I've seen people go far out of their way to help, and others hesitant to do anything out of fear. Encapsulating both sides, I think, was the sickness of my car in rural Ohio. A stranger stopped when he saw my hazard lights, got out, and rooted around in my engine for ten minutes. He determined that the serpentine belt (I think) had frayed. All this was above and beyond what I would expect anyone to do. He said I should cut the belt before it could cause any damage, but that he wouldn't do this (he had a knife on him--ah, rural Ohio) because then I could sue him for destroying my property. It took a huge amount of convincing to get him to do it (so, I guess, he didn't stand idly by); he then followed me for 8 miles until my car died before it could get to a rest stop, drove me the rest of the way, refused payment, and shrugged at my effusive thanks. But even after cutting and removing the cable, he was nervous, and said a few times, "Now, just to be clear, you asked me to do that."<br /><br />Third: And perhaps (unfortunately) dearest to my heart, congratulations on finding a good restaurant in Little Italy. NYC actually has 3 Little Italys--each smaller and less Italian by the year--and in my experience Manhattan's is the least delectable. Bensonhurst in Brooklyn is the best, though few visitors venture out that far.ADLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-3832090870681546132011-10-10T05:12:17.224+11:002011-10-10T05:12:17.224+11:00Oh you people with your naive good samaritan law q...Oh you people with your naive good samaritan law quotations. The standard in NY is "gross negligence." Well, the nurses were probably right under our current wingut system. If that guy dies, or even is brain-damaged, and his wife turns out to be wingnut, she is GONNA sue the nurse (as well as the restaurant). And then the nurse has to prove she wasn't grossly negligent (technically it's the plaintiff's burden, I believe, but the nurse has to do all she can to rebut). And if the nurse is affiliated with a hospital, it's going to get sued, too, and her bosses are not going to be thrilled, whether they win or not. (And god help the nurse and the hospital if the nurse is actually in uniform and is just at the restaurant on her lunch break.) And even if the wife of the guy is not nuts, one or two members of her family or extended family are going to be nuts, and make her go talk to a lawyer, and/or there will be some lawyer on his or her own actively encouraging her to sue, and she'll start seeing dollar signs, particularly if a hospital can be involved. So maybe the chance of all of that nonsense happening is 5% (who knows, really, though). If you're that nurse, are you going to go down there and help that guy for a 5% chance the next year of your life is going to be made hell for your trouble? No, you're going to eat your noodles and pour another glass of cheap chianti.<br /><br />-- An American Defense Litigator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-56382376860422287082011-10-10T02:22:48.960+11:002011-10-10T02:22:48.960+11:00"some countries have welfare systems.
Some c..."some countries have welfare systems.<br /><br />Some countries have tort systems."<br /><br />Britain has a huge, if not very competent, welfare system. Mr Blair lumbered it with a newly active tort system too. Mr Blair and his wife fall into the category "greedy lawyers". Whether that is coincidence I don't know.deariemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-44407131323661975802011-10-10T00:50:08.164+11:002011-10-10T00:50:08.164+11:00I was in Tel Aviv when a motorcycle rider fell off...I was in Tel Aviv when a motorcycle rider fell off his bike into traffic on a busy highway. Almost instantaneously there were dozens of people out of their cars helping this person with traffic still buzzing by. As a New Yorker I was shocked that so many people put their lives in danger to help a stranger without even thinking. It was the complete opposite of what i was accustomed to seeing.Tsachy Mishalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09704013460309564923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-13775908481551115132011-10-10T00:44:03.072+11:002011-10-10T00:44:03.072+11:00John, this is America. Lawyers have killed it, fr...John, this is America. Lawyers have killed it, from top (Washington DC) to bottom (trial lawyers). <br /><br />An acquaintance was recently telling me why he sold his 20 year old restaurant: he said lawyers were soliciting his employees for slip-and-fall, sexual harassment and other EEOC nonsense lawsuits, the question at the end of the day always being, "How much will you pay to make this go away?"<br /><br />So he went away.<br /><br />JMJeff Matthewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04755227781599499378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-64926187291294910912011-10-09T23:45:22.117+11:002011-10-09T23:45:22.117+11:00Bob
That $16 per year is almost certainly flat wr...Bob<br /><br />That $16 per year is almost certainly flat wrong.<br /><br />Insurance premium is massively higher as a percent of GDP in America than elsewhere and insurance profitability is not massively higher.<br /><br />The insurance premium is higher not because of weather or earthquakes - it is higher because insurance premium is what covers all that litgation expense.<br /><br />We are talking several percentage points of GDP.<br /><br />The way I think about it is that some countries have welfare systems.<br /><br />Some countries have tort systems.<br /><br />In the first you pay through the tax system and the tax system is ultimately financially stretched.<br /><br />in the second you pay through insurance premium and the insurance system is ultimately financially stretched.<br /><br />My personal guess is that the welfare system is a more efficient way of delivering than the insurance premium - but I have not done any decent analysis.<br /><br /><br />JohnJohn Hemptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-90756096977388523162011-10-09T23:34:12.864+11:002011-10-09T23:34:12.864+11:00This comment has been removed by the author.John Hemptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-10307980306351416822011-10-09T23:29:29.308+11:002011-10-09T23:29:29.308+11:00Repeating some of the other comments, that was an ...Repeating some of the other comments, that was an anomaly - mother and 2 aunts, a couple of godchildren and half a dozen of my running club friends are nurses - would not have happened with any of them.<br /><br />That said - fear of malpractice is something of a creation of the media rather than the tort bar. <br /><br />The web search that I did brought up a per capita per year cost of $16 per person per year for all settlements and litigation nationwide.<br /><br />One of the highest incidences of claims is for sexual improprieties, oddly enough.<br /><br />I saw one study on Nevada - haven't pulled it up - that said that 10 doctors comprised some huge percentage of the total claims for that state - and I have no reason to believe that medical licensing boards are much more likely to police their own in other states - so it is pretty much 100% a doctor controllable problem - should they choose to do so.<br /><br />A good friend of mine is in claims for a specialty malpractice insurer. Extrapolating their phantom stock price to the rest of the market gives me a valuation of something like $50 per capita - I'd look for ways to go long.<br /><br />BobBob Schriverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03032869236732750105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-3663336491136953432011-10-09T22:10:09.946+11:002011-10-09T22:10:09.946+11:00As a volunteer firefighter in neighboring New Jers...As a volunteer firefighter in neighboring New Jersey with a recently expired Emergency Medical Technician certificate I will say that (a) you did good, and (b) the nurses did not.<br /><br />This isn't the first case in NYC of something like this happening, sometimes it's the hospital they work at that discourage them, since they will be dragged into any litigation also.<br /><br />The Good Samaritan laws should apply, but there's still nothing to mandate a doctor or nurse from rendering aid outside their professional setting. As an EMT, however, I have a duty to act when I witness an incident; failure to do so can lead to criminal charges and loss of certificate.<br /><br />I agree with all your courses of action, and your reasoning. Head injuries can't be treated in a pre-hospital setting, other than controlling the bleeding, which I would not do without rubber gloves on.Limeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-1432956012284696632011-10-09T21:46:47.914+11:002011-10-09T21:46:47.914+11:00In Germany it is law that if you withhold help fro...In Germany it is law that if you withhold help from someone who has had an accident, you can be criminally liable.<br /><br />It depends on your skillset and the circumstance what is expected of you, ranging from a simple call for aid to having to assist with first aid or more.<br /><br />Of course litigation risk here is much more contained and civil suits bring in much less money. Cost of litigation is also negligible compared to the states.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-42115627958862378052011-10-09T21:18:33.903+11:002011-10-09T21:18:33.903+11:00John !
you do envy Silicon Valley ??
this is joke...John !<br /><br />you do envy Silicon Valley ??<br />this is joke !!<br /><br />don't you know Silicon Valley is very strategical place for Secret Services...??<br /><br />here is the real story from US:<br /><br />one of my familiar's kid who was educating in a Kentucky University,do wants to go Silicon Valley after Msc...but oopps one day said to him must first to become a member of "" Icky "" which is a CIA organization to give special educations targeted to some emerging countries at some American Universities...<br />he doesn't agree this proposal..and after he is prisoned <br />in short term by a conspiracy of a dog killing trick...finally he is expelled from US....<br /><br />just an real memory from US...<br />the end of American dream...vesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-19412172266894393752011-10-09T13:13:16.824+11:002011-10-09T13:13:16.824+11:00Dmitry has it more or less right for how I acted.
...Dmitry has it more or less right for how I acted.<br /><br />I decided<br /><br />(a) he was not dying - pulse, breathing<br /><br />(b) he was not drowning in his own vomit (breathing, head down, air flowing out with blood but blood pretty thin).<br /><br />Then I decided to precisely nothing except talk to him and listen to his chest (no bubbles but very wheezy) and take his pulse.<br /><br />Any decision I could make when he was not in immediate danger was probably a bad decision.<br /><br />He was bleeding from head - but not enough to kill him. So I left that alone anyway - and if he was bleeding harder I probably would not have known what to do anyway. Not an injury they teach you to treat in a surf lifesaving course.<br /><br />JJohn Hemptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-53534336684306588062011-10-09T13:01:34.744+11:002011-10-09T13:01:34.744+11:00Then you're clearly not a lawyer, James, becau...Then you're clearly not a lawyer, James, because you clearly don't know what gross negligence means in NY law. It's not just negligence, which is failure to use reasonable care to someone you have a duty of care to. It's more akin to recklessness, a willful disregard of the outcome where you have a duty of care. The duty of care in this case is to the injured diner, and it's to not make it worse.<br /><br />Those nurses were assholes, and it has nothing to do with medical malpractice or tort laws.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-77534492617868246432011-10-09T11:54:29.231+11:002011-10-09T11:54:29.231+11:00As always, there is a flip side.
Idk where Good Sa...As always, there is a flip side.<br />Idk where Good Samaritan laws stand regarding that, but in first aid, too much things could be done wrong or simply unadequate to situation (think broken ribchest on CPR to someone with epileptic seizure or cause of drowning - especially the alcohol own-vomit kind - and stuff like that). Again no idea how american nurses are tranied, but in many parts of the world they are not "doctors" for a reason, some of them anyways. I'm hard-pressed to imagine someone who is confident enough in his basic first aid skills to abandon man in need, and if one is not, I imagine, he could well stay away because we can't readily tell if he's gonna be good or harm.<br />I understand well enough the whole "first aid is life-decider" routine, but I also seen some... example where patients would've been better off without "help".<br /><br />Regards,<br />Dmitry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-71071581710525736752011-10-09T02:53:18.959+11:002011-10-09T02:53:18.959+11:00The NY good Samaritan law would not reassure me mu...The NY good Samaritan law would not reassure me much at all. Particularly if I had medical training. Gross negligence is something lawyers can argue, I would want something stronger.James B. Shearerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13452342984383895221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-64834298758167387732011-10-09T00:18:20.998+11:002011-10-09T00:18:20.998+11:00is this another metaphorical post with a fictional...is this another metaphorical post with a fictional timmy geithner? if so, bravobabar ganeshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01898299856773302141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-55977870479491389412011-10-08T22:33:45.448+11:002011-10-08T22:33:45.448+11:00To anonymous: try Silicon Valley - for a piece of ...To anonymous: try Silicon Valley - for a piece of wild-and-highly-innovative capitalism that develops neat products.<br /><br />But hey - I live in Australia for a reason. But I do envy Silicon Valley.<br /><br />--<br /><br />Also - and just whilst I am there - the radio stations in California include a blues station - that is way better than any equivalent in Australia...<br /><br />The Mexican food is better in Texas than anywhere in Australia too.<br /><br />I could go on. And on. And on.<br /><br />But the beaches are better. And the health care system is better and the Asian fusion restaurants and a bunch of other things are better in Australia.<br /><br />And the street markets are better in France than in either place. But the beaches in Southern France are made of stones...<br /><br />Get used to it - we all have our good bits and our bad bits.John Hemptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-31563524372517440102011-10-08T21:49:30.851+11:002011-10-08T21:49:30.851+11:00Sorry, what exactly IS better in the US than Austr...Sorry, what exactly IS better in the US than Australia?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com