tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post9174712245752933813..comments2024-03-08T06:18:28.125+11:00Comments on Bronte Capital: Is anyone other than me rattled by the FIFA arrests?John Hemptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03766274392122783128noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-17486667438334025772015-06-05T05:15:23.969+10:002015-06-05T05:15:23.969+10:00They used U.S. banks. Presumably the polluting Am...They used U.S. banks. Presumably the polluting American utility company is not using French powerplants, so you've used a poor analogy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-10217129181573722912015-06-03T09:24:30.135+10:002015-06-03T09:24:30.135+10:00Is anyone other than me rattled by the FIFA arrest...Is anyone other than me rattled by the FIFA arrests?<br /><br />-Not at all. <br /><br />...Soccer (or what most the world calls "football") is barely an American game. None of the FIFA officials arrested are American citizens and none of the alleged crimes involved American citizens.<br /><br />-But Power is ‘All American’. FIFA unfortunately, tried to get cute with the Israelis. Plus Qatar. Russia maybe? Lies you say?<br /><br />http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.659004<br /><br />http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2015/05/29/kerry-left-sochi-laughing-to-himself/<br /><br />...And yet FIFA officials are subject to American extradition warrants on the basis of American law...<br /><br />-The phrase ‘American Exceptionalism’ springs to mind. <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uviLM7M2d2o<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjG0aaUOhhU<br /><br />...This is just anti-democratic. We non-Americans did not vote for the US laws and the US legal system is not responsive to our votes. But the US system applies to us even when we are not dealing with Americans...<br /><br />-AHH! But this is the essence, it epitomises Exceptionalism!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-74838518093331144342015-06-01T16:40:00.691+10:002015-06-01T16:40:00.691+10:00"Question for all the Merica defenders. If I ..."Question for all the Merica defenders. If I am non US citizen holding a USD account outside the states does the US have the authority to tax me on those holdings?"<br /><br />No. But if you try to launder your USD through the American banking system then yes. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-33084594850188597742015-05-31T01:49:51.824+10:002015-05-31T01:49:51.824+10:00Question for all the Merica defenders. If I am no...Question for all the Merica defenders. If I am non US citizen holding a USD account outside the states does the US have the authority to tax me on those holdings? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-28051548264549307062015-05-30T13:23:06.408+10:002015-05-30T13:23:06.408+10:00So say you're an Australian citizen, living in...So say you're an Australian citizen, living in Australia and trading on the NYSE - or "insider trading" on the NYSE in this hypothetical case... wouldn't you agree that it would be reasonable for US authorities to request your extradition if they have a solid case you traded on insider information? <br /><br />if you read the indictment, there are lots of references to wire fraud and money laundering, which probably involved some US bank / system...<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-37627167953545578762015-05-29T18:19:37.691+10:002015-05-29T18:19:37.691+10:00There has to be some minimal portion of the crimin...There has to be some minimal portion of the criminal activity occuring on US soil for the US to exert jurisdiction. I'm sure the defendants' lawyers will exhaustively litigate whether that portion suffices for US jurisdiction. <br /><br />On a more general point-- IMO intolerance for corruption is one of the things that the US does best in the world. In may instances, international organizations are first brought to shame/trial in the US. Only a few years later does the rest of the world jump on the bandwagon. Examples include not only the obvious like the FCPA (e.g., Siemens), but also the IOC (remmeber what happened after the Utah olympics?) and even the Catholic Church. I can't imagine that the rate of sexual abuse by Catholic priests in Europe was any different from the rate in the US, but the Europeans quietly tolerated it until a decade or two after the US started raising a stink and filing suits. <br /><br />A lot of outsiders read the US press and conclude that the country is much more corrupt than their homeland. This is simply not the case. Instead, the US is much more open and aggressive about airing and punishing corruption.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-32844531095759243122015-05-29T16:43:12.727+10:002015-05-29T16:43:12.727+10:00John Hempton-
I fear for Bronte Capital's cli...John Hempton-<br /><br />I fear for Bronte Capital's clients, if the intellectual weakness and sloppiness you display in arguing the FIFA issue is repeated by you and BC in the decisions you make on where to sink investor capital.<br /><br />If people are breaking laws in the US by passing bribes through US banks, then they get prosecuted in the US. This is no different if people are breaking Aussie laws through such actions, they get prosecuted in Aussieland; and anywhere else.<br /><br />Further, Yanks are some of the accused, if you had done some due-dil.<br /><br />Good day, mate.<br /><br />Spencer SwartzAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12650558875070920401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-39956213925536653072015-05-29T13:12:43.238+10:002015-05-29T13:12:43.238+10:00The attempt to belittle the validity of the indict...The attempt to belittle the validity of the indictments because Americans refer to the sport as soccer and not football is beneath this blog. <br /><br />Look at the steadily growing talent and popularity of the American professional league, the MLS. Look at US results at the World Cup since 1994 (advancing four times to the Round of 16, once to the Quarterfinals). Look at the promise and popularity of the US national team under Jurgen Klinsmann. Finally, stop attempting to distract from the seriousness of the corruption allegations by falling back on outdated stereotypes about Americans not caring about the sport. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-78176446319389046112015-05-29T09:12:10.680+10:002015-05-29T09:12:10.680+10:00FIFA should be become a public company, its time t...FIFA should be become a public company, its time to subject that mammoth to some regulation<br />perhaps an IPO is the first step Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-19563246912069783582015-05-29T07:14:21.585+10:002015-05-29T07:14:21.585+10:00American soft power influence foreigners living fo...American soft power influence foreigners living foreign countries because the long are of the law extends beyond the U.S. borders and enforces American values that are anathema to corruption.Babuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01276144465468411434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-41922550504245500792015-05-29T06:24:34.717+10:002015-05-29T06:24:34.717+10:00"With over 13 million Americans playing socce..."With over 13 million Americans playing soccer in the United States, soccer is the third most played team sport in the U.S., behind only basketball and baseball/softball. With an average attendance of over 18,000 per game, MLS has the third highest average attendance of any sports league in the U.S.,[9] and is the seventh highest attended professional soccer league worldwide.--From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" Check your sources and your mouth-- stupid hedge fund moron.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-87332838735871206562015-05-29T06:14:38.261+10:002015-05-29T06:14:38.261+10:00Couple hundred million in placing the venue corrup...Couple hundred million in placing the venue corruption is far eclipsed by the several billions 'earned' in gambling by fixing the games, misdirecting the real problemAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02555412597906731754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-38442157633657586602015-05-29T03:59:11.997+10:002015-05-29T03:59:11.997+10:00The bigger issue is Foreign Policy; we can't b...The bigger issue is Foreign Policy; we can't be trusted to abide by international law as the forcing down of Morales plane in pursuit of Snowden and other instances show the world. We need to regain the moral high ground in order to be an effective world leader unless we are intent on waging permanent wars around the world wherever people disagree with our opinions.<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-54712739437608298412015-05-29T03:52:58.026+10:002015-05-29T03:52:58.026+10:00It seems to me that the US has clear jurisdiction ...It seems to me that the US has clear jurisdiction over all of those arrested and the crimes alleged. The most tenuous - the CBF (Brasil) arrest - appears related to bribes paid by a US company to secure licensing or other rights to CBF business and the crime alleged appears to have occurred in the US. The DOJ appears to have on paper been careful to establish jurisdiction, which may be why it only charged a handful of people this far. This link may be handy in understanding is arguments of jurisdiction. http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/nine-fifa-officials-and-five-corporate-executives-indicted-racketeering-conspiracy-and<br /><br />Also, from what i can tell the US isn't alone in investigating FIFA corruption allegations and it has shared a lot of info with Switzerland where FIFA is based. This is likely only the beginning. We'll learn more over the coming weeks about what evidence the US holds, what it learned in its raids of the region offices, and if Switzerland or other countries take additional action. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-68332485315155077662015-05-29T02:59:25.943+10:002015-05-29T02:59:25.943+10:00"To the person who mentioned needing to prove..."To the person who mentioned needing to prove 'dual criminality' - that might be true in theory but in practice when the US charges you with conspiracy rather than something more specific, then there is very little one can do to defend oneself."<br /><br />There are plenty of specific charges in the indictment to go along with the RICO conspiracy charge.<br /><br />Also: according to trusty Wikipedia, it is pretty normal to have international enforcement in a case like this:<br /><br />"In the overall body of RICO cases that went to trial, at least 50% have had some non-US enforcement component to them. The offshoring of money away from the US finance system as part racketeering (and especially money laundering) is typically a major contributing factor to this."<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act#International_equivalents_to_RICOAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-23074353895456743142015-05-28T22:19:58.966+10:002015-05-28T22:19:58.966+10:00interesting how the govts start enforcing laws (fo...interesting how the govts start enforcing laws (formerly ignored) when govt coffers run dry and audiences' pockets have been picked clean.<br /><br />Generational Govt Grafters and Govt go after each others' throats - suddenly spouting the law as rule - cause putting John Q Homeless into the pen is an upgrade - time to bring some Lord Lollypops down.<br /><br />oh well. players play, watchers watch- and generational grafters graft.<br /><br />First we watch the "football" match. Now we watch the Govt go after FIFA Generational Grafters match. Get the popcorn...<br /><br /><br /><br />tigergirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-85682901805422303212015-05-28T21:48:57.382+10:002015-05-28T21:48:57.382+10:00If they'd paid in Argentine Pesos and directed...If they'd paid in Argentine Pesos and directed all payments through Argentine channels, there'd be little the US could do.<br /><br /><br />But they paid in US dollars, used US intermediary banks, etc. It involves US citizens. I don't even see it as real extraterritoriality. The payment stream WASN'T EVEN offshore!<br /><br />(i.e., it wasn't like payment from a USD account held at BIS to another USD account held at BIS, something about which the US govt cannot see). <br /><br />If you want to pursue corruption, make sure it does not involve any US persons and does not use US based infrastructure or payment systems. Simple enough.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-43337827668022624372015-05-28T20:59:27.720+10:002015-05-28T20:59:27.720+10:00I'm with the UK press - well done to the FBI f...I'm with the UK press - well done to the FBI for having the balls (sorry to Loretta Lynch) for attacking this one head on. In other cases I too am very unhappy with the extraordinarily long arm of the US law and which doesn't work both ways so I agree with the concerns here on point of principle. But as Mr Gotham pointed out, all other interested countries were too scared to do anything in case FIFA turned against them. The Swiss too were happy to have FIFA on their soil so turned a blind eye.<br /><br />Perhaps now more people with evidence will come forward and the whole sorry affair will come out into the open. A great day for football.martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-46425005601595345212015-05-28T20:53:13.697+10:002015-05-28T20:53:13.697+10:00There is another aspect of American extra-territor...There is another aspect of American extra-territorial (in)justice, that you have not mentioned.<br /><br />The plea-bargain. <br /><br />1.) Take one villain guilty or not-guilty, the facts are not of any real importance to a successful prosecution.<br /><br />2.) Threaten them with a long term in a very unsafe prison, say life....No... lets say 3 life sentences...No...why not 300 years or even 3000 years, if they go to trial<br /><br />3.) Offer them a reduced sentence, say 15 years and a large fine if they plead guilty. Point out that they are likely to be found guilty because they are {foreign,race,gender,..pick as many as you like}<br /><br />4.) Leave to stew in a prison for a while <br /><br />5.) Accept Guilty plea and trumpet successful prosecution/extortion<br /><br />Somewhere in the order of 95% of trials in the US are plea bargains. Where's the justice in that?<br /><br />https://www.bja.gov/Publications/PleaBargainingResearchSummary.pdf<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-75737067687803363092015-05-28T19:42:32.730+10:002015-05-28T19:42:32.730+10:00They used US banks to send and receive bribes, thi...They used US banks to send and receive bribes, this gives the US jurisdiction over this issue. period, end of storyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-85665024583479196562015-05-28T19:38:42.041+10:002015-05-28T19:38:42.041+10:00I completely agree about the U.S. government over-...I completely agree about the U.S. government over-reach problem.<br /><br />But, your example suggests that the laws were not being broken in the home country. The laws that the FIFA representatives were alleged to have broken are laws in every developed country in the world. It would be easy for everyone to say "not my problem". <br /><br />At least someone has stood up against it.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-9386450192304211802015-05-28T19:29:16.258+10:002015-05-28T19:29:16.258+10:00Same dudes that think this just John's "l...Same dudes that think this just John's "liberalism" coming out would be screaming murder if US drone operators were indicted by European courts and requested to be extradited.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-33447555276355074002015-05-28T19:12:24.296+10:002015-05-28T19:12:24.296+10:00Also surprised there are negative comments. Comple...Also surprised there are negative comments. Completely agree with the original post. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-23360872692118531932015-05-28T18:41:52.160+10:002015-05-28T18:41:52.160+10:00don't think lance armstrong is a good example
...don't think lance armstrong is a good example<br /><br />he is a US citizen who was riding for a US team which received US federal funding/sponsorship (via us postal service)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4815867514277794362.post-47151766212973627442015-05-28T18:25:31.103+10:002015-05-28T18:25:31.103+10:00I am, never use an American bank or their financia...I am, never use an American bank or their financial system is the lesson that I have taken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com